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Eat Like an Okinawan, live long with health
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rick
medicine forum addict


Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 12:09 am    Post subject: Re: Eat Like an Okinawan, live long with health Reply with quote

"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:f5i791ho1ih6t97tflec7k3b28d8t0ialo@4ax.com...
Quote:
"rick" <stop@stop.net> wrote in part:


"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:nls6919iq36ejd797re136jopp4r12nftl@4ax.com...
"Juhana Harju" <shantigiri@despammed.com> wrote in part:

calypso47@voyager.net wrote:
::
http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/wl/2001/wlFeatured0901.html
::
:: "the highest percentage of centenarians anywhere. Heart
disease rates
:: are low: 80% fewer heart attacks than Americans, and
Okinawans who
:: have heart attacks are more likely to survive. Breast
and
prostate
:: cancer are so rare as to be unheard of among the older
population.
:: Obesity is equally rare."
::
:: About 14 percent of the diet comes from fish, meat,
poltry,
and eggs.

_Okinawan elders eat as part of their diet_:
Fish 11%
Meat, poultry, eggs 3%
(percentages by weight)

_Americans_:
Fish <1%
Meat, poultry, eggs 29%
(percentages by weight)

(Source: Willcox, Willcox & Suzuki, The Okinawa Program.
Clarkson Potter,
New York 2001, p. 71)

Such comparisons aren't the real story, perhaps.

I doubt that the Okinawans eat mostly farm-raised (grain-fed)
fish, beef produced in feed-lots from grain, or poultry and
eggs
from animals raised in cages on grain. The fatty acid
compositions
of those foods are different in Okinawa and the West.
====================
Still means they are not vegan...
All the meats you mentioned are available here too, so your
point
is.....?





--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA


Where is "here?"
=================

Same as you...


Quote:

My point is that the comparison btween % of different types of
meats is perhaps misleading, in that the "same" meats tend to
be
different in Okinawa and the West.
==========================

Still doesn't mean 'all' meats are different.



For example, westerners don't
Quote:
just eat a lot less fish, but the fish they eat has been raised
to
have fatty acid profiles with less of the beneficial fatty
acids
that fish provide.
===============

Not all fish are farm raised...

Similarly, westerners eat not just more poultry
Quote:
and beef, but poultry and beef that have a greater amount of
fat,
and a less healthy mix of fatty acids.
=======================

Which again is not 'all' beef and poultry. Beef with the same
omega fat ratios as fish is readily available.

If you even read the site that was posted that you responded to,
you'll see that it even says you don't have to live in Okinawa to
eat like they do...



Quote:
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
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Jim Chinnis
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1030

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Eat Like an Okinawan, live long with health Reply with quote

"rick" <stop@stop.net> wrote in part:

Quote:

"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:nls6919iq36ejd797re136jopp4r12nftl@4ax.com...
"Juhana Harju" <shantigiri@despammed.com> wrote in part:

calypso47@voyager.net wrote:
::
http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/wl/2001/wlFeatured0901.html
::
:: "the highest percentage of centenarians anywhere. Heart
disease rates
:: are low: 80% fewer heart attacks than Americans, and
Okinawans who
:: have heart attacks are more likely to survive. Breast and
prostate
:: cancer are so rare as to be unheard of among the older
population.
:: Obesity is equally rare."
::
:: About 14 percent of the diet comes from fish, meat, poltry,
and eggs.

_Okinawan elders eat as part of their diet_:
Fish 11%
Meat, poultry, eggs 3%
(percentages by weight)

_Americans_:
Fish <1%
Meat, poultry, eggs 29%
(percentages by weight)

(Source: Willcox, Willcox & Suzuki, The Okinawa Program.
Clarkson Potter,
New York 2001, p. 71)

Such comparisons aren't the real story, perhaps.

I doubt that the Okinawans eat mostly farm-raised (grain-fed)
fish, beef produced in feed-lots from grain, or poultry and
eggs
from animals raised in cages on grain. The fatty acid
compositions
of those foods are different in Okinawa and the West.
====================
Still means they are not vegan...
All the meats you mentioned are available here too, so your point
is.....?





--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA


Where is "here?"

My point is that the comparison btween % of different types of
meats is perhaps misleading, in that the "same" meats tend to be
different in Okinawa and the West. For example, westerners don't
just eat a lot less fish, but the fish they eat has been raised to
have fatty acid profiles with less of the beneficial fatty acids
that fish provide. Similarly, westerners eat not just more poultry
and beef, but poultry and beef that have a greater amount of fat,
and a less healthy mix of fatty acids.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
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Don Kirkman
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 726

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 9:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Eat Like an Okinawan, live long with health Reply with quote

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Susan wrote in article
<3fhakjF7j0qcU1@individual.net>:

Quote:
x-no-archive: yes

Jim Chinnis wrote:

I doubt that the Okinawans eat mostly farm-raised (grain-fed)
fish, beef produced in feed-lots from grain, or poultry and eggs
from animals raised in cages on grain. The fatty acid compositions
of those foods are different in Okinawa and the West.

Generally true, since much of the seafood is still wild or cultivated in
sea-water farms. Some beef is feed-lot, notoriously the famous hand-fed
Kobe beef, but that is so expensive it doesn't make much of a blip in
the average diet.

Quote:
Not only that, I've read (though I don't have cites) that the Okinawans
also eat a greasy diet, especially pork fat.

Actually they don't eat a particularly greasy diet, since poultry and
seafoods provide more of the diet than red meats (or white, for pork).
Not much oil or other fat is used in cooking (changing with the times,
though*), and as long ago as the 1960s the Agriculture Ministry was
working to develop leaner hogs for market, making use of research and
development from Norway.

* Remember that those of advanced age were reared on the diets of half
a century and more ago and probably haven't changed their eating habits
as much as younger Japanese.
--
Don Kirkman
Back to top
rick
medicine forum addict


Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Eat Like an Okinawan, live long with health Reply with quote

"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:nls6919iq36ejd797re136jopp4r12nftl@4ax.com...
Quote:
"Juhana Harju" <shantigiri@despammed.com> wrote in part:

calypso47@voyager.net wrote:
::
http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/wl/2001/wlFeatured0901.html
::
:: "the highest percentage of centenarians anywhere. Heart
disease rates
:: are low: 80% fewer heart attacks than Americans, and
Okinawans who
:: have heart attacks are more likely to survive. Breast and
prostate
:: cancer are so rare as to be unheard of among the older
population.
:: Obesity is equally rare."
::
:: About 14 percent of the diet comes from fish, meat, poltry,
and eggs.

_Okinawan elders eat as part of their diet_:
Fish 11%
Meat, poultry, eggs 3%
(percentages by weight)

_Americans_:
Fish <1%
Meat, poultry, eggs 29%
(percentages by weight)

(Source: Willcox, Willcox & Suzuki, The Okinawa Program.
Clarkson Potter,
New York 2001, p. 71)

Such comparisons aren't the real story, perhaps.

I doubt that the Okinawans eat mostly farm-raised (grain-fed)
fish, beef produced in feed-lots from grain, or poultry and
eggs
from animals raised in cages on grain. The fatty acid
compositions
of those foods are different in Okinawa and the West.
====================

Still means they are not vegan...
All the meats you mentioned are available here too, so your point
is.....?





Quote:
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Back to top
Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Eat Like an Okinawan, live long with health Reply with quote

Susan wrote:
:: x-no-archive: yes
::
:: Jim Chinnis wrote:
::
::: I doubt that the Okinawans eat mostly farm-raised (grain-fed)
::: fish, beef produced in feed-lots from grain, or poultry and eggs
::: from animals raised in cages on grain. The fatty acid compositions
::: of those foods are different in Okinawa and the West.
::: --
::: Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
::
:: Not only that, I've read (though I don't have cites) that the
:: Okinawans also eat a greasy diet, especially pork fat.

Well, I can guess what your source is: the Weston A. Price site which keeps
giving misleading information about the Okinawan diet. The Okinawan
reseachers are a first hand source while Weston A. Price is not. I hope that
you stop spreading this incorrect information about Okinawan diets.

--
Juhana
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Susan
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 932

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Eat Like an Okinawan, live long with health Reply with quote

x-no-archive: yes

Jim Chinnis wrote:

Quote:
I doubt that the Okinawans eat mostly farm-raised (grain-fed)
fish, beef produced in feed-lots from grain, or poultry and eggs
from animals raised in cages on grain. The fatty acid compositions
of those foods are different in Okinawa and the West.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Not only that, I've read (though I don't have cites) that the Okinawans
also eat a greasy diet, especially pork fat.

Susan
Back to top
Jim Chinnis
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1030

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Eat Like an Okinawan, live long with health Reply with quote

"Juhana Harju" <shantigiri@despammed.com> wrote in part:

Quote:
calypso47@voyager.net wrote:
:: http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/wl/2001/wlFeatured0901.html
::
:: "the highest percentage of centenarians anywhere. Heart disease rates
:: are low: 80% fewer heart attacks than Americans, and Okinawans who
:: have heart attacks are more likely to survive. Breast and prostate
:: cancer are so rare as to be unheard of among the older population.
:: Obesity is equally rare."
::
:: About 14 percent of the diet comes from fish, meat, poltry, and eggs.

_Okinawan elders eat as part of their diet_:
Fish 11%
Meat, poultry, eggs 3%
(percentages by weight)

_Americans_:
Fish <1%
Meat, poultry, eggs 29%
(percentages by weight)

(Source: Willcox, Willcox & Suzuki, The Okinawa Program. Clarkson Potter,
New York 2001, p. 71)

Such comparisons aren't the real story, perhaps.

I doubt that the Okinawans eat mostly farm-raised (grain-fed)
fish, beef produced in feed-lots from grain, or poultry and eggs
from animals raised in cages on grain. The fatty acid compositions
of those foods are different in Okinawa and the West.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Back to top
Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: Eat Like an Okinawan, live long with health Reply with quote

calypso47@voyager.net wrote:
:: http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/wl/2001/wlFeatured0901.html
::
:: "the highest percentage of centenarians anywhere. Heart disease rates
:: are low: 80% fewer heart attacks than Americans, and Okinawans who
:: have heart attacks are more likely to survive. Breast and prostate
:: cancer are so rare as to be unheard of among the older population.
:: Obesity is equally rare."
::
:: About 14 percent of the diet comes from fish, meat, poltry, and eggs.

_Okinawan elders eat as part of their diet_:
Fish 11%
Meat, poultry, eggs 3%
(percentages by weight)

_Americans_:
Fish <1%
Meat, poultry, eggs 29%
(percentages by weight)

(Source: Willcox, Willcox & Suzuki, The Okinawa Program. Clarkson Potter,
New York 2001, p. 71)

--
Juhana
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 8:01 pm    Post subject: Eat Like an Okinawan, live long with health Reply with quote

http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/wl/2001/wlFeatured0901.html

"the highest percentage of centenarians anywhere. Heart disease rates
are low: 80% fewer heart attacks than Americans, and Okinawans who
have heart attacks are more likely to survive. Breast and prostate
cancer are so rare as to be unheard of among the older population.
Obesity is equally rare."

About 14 percent of the diet comes from fish, meat, poltry, and eggs.
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