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Coffee and Heart Problems
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 8540

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: What's the name of the restaurant? WAS:Re: Could I really bepre-diabetic Reply with quote

"Bob (this one)" wrote:
Quote:

So what's the name of the restaurant...?

It seems you remain a food worshipper.

In Christ's love and service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?W13A4250B
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 8540

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: I'm proud of my puppy...... Reply with quote

"Bob (this one)" wrote:
Quote:

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
sechumlib wrote:

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

Blash wrote:


Chung says:

Glad to hear that your puppy has accepted Christ as his personal Lord and
Savior. You should be proud :-)

YOU ARE REALLY IN A RUT!!!


No need to yell. Sorry my being openly Christian bothers you so
terribly. Please forgive me my choice.

Why should we forgive you?


Because this is a test. You will be asked your own question when the
Lord returns to judge us all and you will like to be able to say that
you should be forgiven because you have forgiven.

But that's judgement on deeds.

Correct.


Quote:
You say that all one needs to do is
accept Jesus as your savior.

Accepting Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior is all that
is required for salvation.


Quote:
That actions don't matter.

They don't matter for salvation.


Quote:
Only that belief
counts, you've written.

As I have written again.


Quote:
How does this reconcile this new message with what you've posted before?

Salvation does not mean escape from judgment. It means getting a pardon
**after** judgment:

http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/christ.asp


Quote:
Contradictions don't go too far to support intelligent positions.

There have been no contradictions.


In Christ's love and service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?W13A4250B
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
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Marc L.
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: Healing by Christ Reply with quote

Don Kirkman <donkirk@covad.net> wrote in
news:m1imd1tgh2973tb3cttuibl9bmi4fun793@4ax.com:

Quote:
It is written that a man should love his wife as Jesus loves His
church. That this love should be so great that a man would be
compelled to give up his life for her just as Jesus was compelled
to give up His life. For this reason, your support of attacks on
Christian churches is tantamount to supporting attacks on Jesus.

Andrew, once more you make a common mistake of the unlearned by
confusing buildings with the communion of the saints. In the
writing you cite the church is the body of Christ, the fellowship
of believers. Where they meet and worship is irrelevant (AAMOF the
early Christians met in homes, not in dedicated church
buildings--you can read all about it in the New Testament).


More important, Andrew's idiotic claim assumes that Christian
Churches actually follow Jesus's teachings, they don't.

--
Marc
"Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as
outraged as those who are."--Benjamin Franklin
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Blash
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: I'm proud of my puppy...... Reply with quote

Chung writes:

<< Writing in all caps is "yelling" per USENET convention. Thanks for
stopping.

In Christ's love and service,>>

USENET convention also has many mentions of staying on topic.....or doesn't
that apply to YOU???
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Bryan
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Healing by Christ Reply with quote

Omer messenger wrote:

Quote:
Bryan wrote:

Or is it that good old masturbatory

exercise you like to partake of by wasting your superior writing
skills and level of intelligence in our small minded and trite newsgroup.


f*** you, Bryan.

Your limits have obviously been exceeded and my expectations for you
have proven to be far, far greater than the demonstration.

Don't lump the others here into that "small minded and trite" group you
belong to.

Omer (in your honor) Simpson
forget your meds much? it was sarcasm you dolt.
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AmazingBollWeevil
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: What's the name of the restaurant? WAS:Re: Could I really bepre-diabetic Reply with quote

"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote

Quote:
"Bob (this one)" wrote:

So what's the name of the restaurant...?

It seems you remain a food worshipper.

That would be a judgement, Andrew.
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Don Kirkman
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 726

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Healing by Christ Reply with quote

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
article <42DB6BF1.DA9554A8@heartmdphd.com>:

Quote:
Don Kirkman wrote:

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
article <42DB1D3A.95413598@heartmdphd.com>:

Grandpa Chuck wrote:

[. . .]

Quote:
Let's see. I was talking about Christian Churches who all say that
Jesus was Christ. Actually what I remember most about the teachings
about Jesus I was exposed to in Sunday School and Bible School said
that his main message was one of love. Where did Jesus preach? In
temples?

Yes (Luke 4:16-27).

And in synagogues and in the fields and hills and in boats near the
shore. Actually there was only one temple in Israel at the time of
Jesus, so your "yes" is inaccurate.

The "yes" is the correct answer for the question that was asked (note
that Chuck pluralized temple thereby including the synagogues).

Once more it's Andrew against the world: the one temple did not include
the synagogues, despite the fact that nowadays some synagogues are
called "temples". The Temple in Jerusalem was the holiest place in
Judaism, the site of sacrifices and where the scribes and priests
debated and taught their religion and presided over disputes based on
scriptural and traditional teachings. Synagogues were regional
institutions for weekly worship meetings; no sacrifices, no priests, no
judicial functions.

Don't try to put the fault on Chuck; if you knew his "temples" was
incorrect (you didn't apparently) you had an opportunity to correct him
instead of one of your patented one-word answers "yes". AAMOF there is
no record that Jesus **ever** taught in the temple; the nearest to that
is that as a child he discussed a religious question with the elders in
the temple, during which his understanding amazed them.

Quote:
Your answer falls short of the full
truth, omitting facts and apparently believing that there was more than
one temple.

Truth is simple:

Facts are facts.

I prefer the truth.

Then accept it when it is offered to you.
--
Don Kirkman
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Happy Dog
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Soaring healthcare costs hurting US economy, driving business to Canada Reply with quote

"W. Crawley" <w.crawley@bellsouth.net> wrote
Quote:
"Robert" <Robertitsme@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Let me repeat here that there is no such thing as fear of competition
between HMO's, private insurance and socialized medicine. You simply
don't
have any competition by law.
It is the other way around, it is the socialized system that is afraid
of
competition which is why private insurance is illegal.

Well, it sure seems that way. Every suggestion that certain services be
readily available for those who wish to pay is met with a barrage of
socialist objection.

Why do you discuss things that you know nothing about? Narrow mined
ignorance is one of the reasons why our system is headed down the drain
and
you are doing your damndest to help it along.

My statement is factual. Do you disagree that there is enthusiastic and
vocal opposition to suggestions that many services should be made available
by for-profit businesses to those who can pay? Whatever we're doing, it
ain't working now. Visited a hospital lately?

moo
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Robert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1700

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Soaring healthcare costs hurting US economy, driving business to Canada Reply with quote

"W. Crawley" <w.crawley@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d45c649d3ee251698b4b3@news.individual.net...
Quote:
Happy Dog <happydog@sympatico.ca> wrote in message:
news:<QLSCe.2032$je2.294701@news20.bellglobal.com
"Robert" <Robertitsme@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:YqKdncRvPJTmckbfRVn-tw@got.net...

Let me repeat here that there is no such thing as fear of competition
between HMO's, private insurance and socialized medicine. You simply
don't
have any competition by law.
It is the other way around, it is the socialized system that is afraid
of
competition which is why private insurance is illegal.

Well, it sure seems that way. Every suggestion that certain services be
readily available for those who wish to pay is met with a barrage of
socialist objection.

moo



Why do you discuss things that you know nothing about? Narrow mined
ignorance is one of the reasons why our system is headed down the drain
and
you are doing your damndest to help it along.

That is a valid point and I am not trying to exaggerate but under a
socialistic system then the press is also controlled along with dissent.
Most socialist governments know that and that is why they have everything
under control. They put dissidents in jail.
There is a valid reason why there is not a dual parallel system in Canada.
You can have a two tier system but the government spins that by saying that
it creates inequality in waiting times.
In reality the real reason is that most all doctors and healthcare providers
would run and not walk to that private option leaving the socialist side
with nobody. There is a two tier system in the United Kingdom and in most of
the European states that have a socialist medical system along side the
private insurance option.
North Korea, Cuba and Canada are the only nations that have a law against
allowing private healthcare.
I would suggest you read the Canadian Supreme Court decision about the human
rights violations of your Canadian Health system that denies your people's
right's under your own Charter.
Your ignorance of your own system is pissing your own doctors and nurses off
as you turn a blind eye pretending that it is a great system.

Your Canadian doctors are saying that they can practice better medicine in
the US.

"Why are physicians leaving?

As with nurses, the number of physician emigrants was highest in the
mid-1990s, when anger over cuts in provincial health care expenditures was
at its peak. In 1996, for example, 731 physicians left Canada. Although
another 218 doctors returned, the net loss was 513 physicians - a number
roughly equivalent to 30% of the annual output from Canada's 16 medical
schools. Those numbers have dropped recently, but even though the net loss
fell to only 248 doctors in 1998, that is still equal to the output of
several medical schools and it comes in the midst of a worsening physician
shortage.

Why are these physicians leaving? Dr. Lorne Tyrrell, dean of medicine and
dentistry at the University of Alberta, says lower tax levels in the US are
only one reason for the exodus. "This came home to me the other day when I
spoke to a young ENT surgeon who is moving to North Dakota. When I asked him
why he would leave Canada when we have such an acute need for specialists
like him, he told me that opportunities to do surgery here were too
restricted. His waiting room is always full here, but he only has access to
an operating room in his Edmonton hospital for 2 hours every 2 weeks. In
North Dakota, he gets 2 afternoons a week in the OR." Economists may argue
that too much surgery is being done, but Tyrrell says that "we can't afford
to lose our specialists."

Similarly, family physicians in Canada feel the fee-for-service system puts
them on a treadmill. "They tell me that in the US they can work the same
hours, but see fewer patients and practice better medicine."

A third reason for the physician outflow is the opportunity to receive
postgraduate training in the US. In Canada, medical school cuts have left
little flexibility for graduates trying to find residencies in Canada. It is
particularly difficult for a physician to return for specialty training
after spending a few years in practice."
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Robert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1700

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Soaring healthcare costs hurting US economy, driving business to Canada Reply with quote

"Ace" <ace.jackson@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d45c5267dfe406198b4b2@news.individual.net...
Quote:
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message:
news:<1121709240.702031.57730@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
If Canada wants to be the blue collar manufacturing paradise by reason
of subsidising blue collar jobs through cheap blue collar health care,
that's FINE with me. I don't think it's a particularly great
macro-economic strategy for a country to take, but to each his own.

That's a gross generalization born of abject ignorance on the situation
and
the subject.

Please see the reference above pertaining to doctors leaving Canada because
of the high tax burden on them.
If think that is very ironic.
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Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1218

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Soaring healthcare costs hurting US economy, driving business to Canada Reply with quote

Ace wrote:
Quote:
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message:
news:<1121709240.702031.57730@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
If Canada wants to be the blue collar manufacturing paradise by reason
of subsidising blue collar jobs through cheap blue collar health care,
that's FINE with me. I don't think it's a particularly great
macro-economic strategy for a country to take, but to each his own.

That's a gross generalization born of abject ignorance on the situation and
the subject.


COMMENT:

Anything stated in a paragraph is bound to be a gross generalization.
In any case, if you will re-examine the message I was replying to,
you'll find this generalization was mostly not mine.

SBH
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Bob (this one)
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1196

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Healing by Christ Reply with quote

Bryan wrote:
Quote:
Omer messenger wrote:

Bryan wrote:

Or is it that good old masturbatory
exercise you like to partake of by wasting your superior writing
skills and level of intelligence in our small minded and trite
newsgroup.

f*** you, Bryan.

Your limits have obviously been exceeded and my expectations for you
have proven to be far, far greater than the demonstration.

Don't lump the others here into that "small minded and trite" group
you belong to.

Omer (in your honor) Simpson

forget your meds much? it was sarcasm you dolt.

Bryan, you can't play at this level. You simply don't have the
equipment. You simply don't have the judgement. You simply don't have
the sense. You simply can't write your intent and your meanings clearly.

I can and I did. Learn or don't.

Pastorio
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Bob (this one)
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1196

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: To switchboard or not to switchboard WAS:Re: Regarding Dr Chung Reply with quote

Uncle Enrico wrote:
Quote:
Bob (this one) wrote:

Uncle Enrico wrote:

Bob (this one) wrote:

"Your posts, by contrast, offer unmerited self-congratulation and a
noxious patina of supercilious smugness."

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Good job on upgrading everyone's vocabulary level on ASD.

I try to please, but it's an unintended benefit. Striving for accuracy
demands precision.

But you should change "noxious" to "odious" because noxious implies
harm to one's health, and we generally don't ingest or inhale a
"patina" (a discoloration caused by oxidation on a metal surface).

Poor Uncle Hank is using that old college thesaurus. Old Thesaurus
Rex, all petrified and narrow, big claws and long-dead.

"Noxious" also means "pernicious, unwholesome, destructive" and a few
other things. You might want to look in a real dictionary like an
Oxford or Websters unabridged. There are pictures in them, too, so
you'll feel more at home than in a thesaurus.

"Patina" is a thin surface coating, and in the world of art, refers to
either a natural coating like the pretty colors copper or bronze get
over time from exposure (that pretty green or brown you see on
statures), or an artificial application designed to imitate a genuine
finish. In any event, it's a surface phenomenon, real or fake, like
your posts.

So, lightweight, "a noxious patina" would be an unwholesome, false
surface view. Exactly what you inadvertently present when you think
you're being clever. Like here.

HTH

"Odious" as an adjective is better here as it implies something
"offensive," the feeling my posts engender in you.

Oh, no. How could anyone ever see you as offensive. I'm afraid you've
made another boner and misjudged the situation (and you say you're
some kind of analyst, huh?). My imaginary picture of you is a huge
target swaggering around not-too-far downrange. You continue to
ascribe importance to yourself that's unmerited. And effects larger
than you deserve.

Or you could stick with "noxious" and

use a noun like "cloud" instead of "patina."

Or you could buy a real dictionary and still stay wherever it is that
you might be competent. So far, based on your posts, it's anybody's
guess.

I liked the line... "supercilious smugness."

Mirror, mirror on the wall...

Maybe you can work "metal" into a metaphor for a future post and use
"patina" there.

And maybe you can stop pretending that you can play in this league.
More self-applied "noxious patina" in action.

BTW, are you generally unhappy, or do these feelings come about only
when reading my posts or those of Andrew? Or is it a reaction to
religion in general?

Many-part questions are good. They give you a chance to show what a
thoroughgoing blowhole you are.

So the "are you generally unhappy" conclusion you reach (and you say
you're a some kind of analyst, huh?) is based entirely on the words
you see here. And in your debilitated way of thinking, that's enough
to form a diagnosis/description like that. Amazing. And you seem not
to know how embarrassed you should be.

And, further, to reinforce your conclusion, you load up the question
as though it weren't a tautology and say, "or do these feelings come
about only when reading my posts or those of Andrew?" Fucking
brilliant rhetorical device; truly, truly self-serving nonsense. Just
like Andrew, you claim expertise and then make bullshit statements *as
an expert* that merely show you to be just as fraudulent.

You cap it off with "Or is it a reaction to religion in general?" You
need to talk with Andrew before that whole sockpuppet thing runs away
with you. Today, he insists that Christianity isn't a religion (LOL).
But anyway, to answer your insincere question *again*, I'm actually
very happy spotlighting your fakery and Chung's. It has virtually
nothing to do with religion as such and everything to do with the
sadly hubristic insanity you both peddle. When I said, "Your posts, by
contrast, offer unmerited self-congratulation and a noxious patina of
supercilious smugness," it was accurate, and your convoluted efforts
here with your schoolboy thesaurus references are just good
documentation of the truth of it.

I'm putting you on my prayer list, Pastorio. Hope you don't mind.

Actually, I do mind. God knows what you are.

Might be a bad reference for me. Like when a slimy scam artist says
that anyone else is a good guy and he wishes them well. No, I mean God
*knows* what you are and I don't want to get splashed with that stuff
you exude.

Pastorio


Keep hanging out with us Pastorio! There are good things in store for
you. As for me, I'm learning to be more patient.

I can certainly understand that patience thing. When you say such
profoundly erroneous stuff as you do above, with that smug attitude you
bring, you need the patience of a couple Jobs to assimilate *all* the
blunders in one reading.

But I like that swaggering bravado in the face of being shown to be the
sort of fool who desperately wants to compete, so much so that he gives
away any semblance of reality. Show us more wordplay, stutter-boy.

I'm "hanging out" with you in the same spirit as when I'm hanging out at
the shooting range. That bull's eye goes well with the color of your nose...

Pastorio
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Bob (this one)
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1196

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: What's the name of the restaurant? WAS:Re: Could I really bepre-diabetic Reply with quote

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

Quote:
"Bob (this one)" wrote:

So what's the name of the restaurant...?

It seems you remain a truth worshipper.

IFYPFY

Your post mistakenly said "It seems you remain a food worshipper." And
since we've already dealt with that falsehood, I corrected it to read
truthfully.

So, Andrew, you say there's a restaurant where they sell lobster,
shrimp, steak and other expensive foods for $4.99 a pound for supper. I
don't believe that and this is my area of expertise, and it has been for
more than 30 years. I've sold prepared food by the pound myself, and
read about it, and interviewed other people who did it. None ever
offered seafoods like the ones you listed. I think you didn't tell the
truth.

Do prove me wrong. I'll even apologize if it's so. What's the name of
the restaurant.

Pastorio
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Bob (this one)
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1196

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm proud of my puppy...... Reply with quote

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Quote:
"Bob (this one)" wrote:

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

sechumlib wrote:

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

Blash wrote:

Chung says:

Glad to hear that your puppy has accepted Christ as his personal Lord and
Savior. You should be proud :-)

YOU ARE REALLY IN A RUT!!!

No need to yell. Sorry my being openly Christian bothers you so
terribly. Please forgive me my choice.

Why should we forgive you?


Because this is a test. You will be asked your own question when the
Lord returns to judge us all and you will like to be able to say that
you should be forgiven because you have forgiven.

But that's judgement on deeds.

Correct.

You say that all one needs to do is
accept Jesus as your savior.

Accepting Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior is all that
is required for salvation.

That actions don't matter.

They don't matter for salvation.

Only that belief counts, you've written.

As I have written again.

Funny how James disagrees with you. Funny how the synoptic gospels say
exactly the opposite from you. John and Paul agree with you. No solid
conclusion to draw based on what these guys say. You do what Martin
Luther did; you discount James because you don't like what he said.
Luther called it, IIRC, "an epistle of straw."

Pick and choose what you want to believe, but only sort of... see below.

Quote:
How does this reconcile this new message with what you've posted before?

Salvation does not mean escape from judgment. It means getting a pardon
**after** judgment:

So it still means that you *can* earn your way into heaven if your deeds
can reverse a judgement, get a person a pardon **after** judgement.

If all that is necessary for salvation is belief, judgement is a yes-no
thing. Or can people have a partial belief? So what's to judge beyond
that basic question? If no, you say it matters not what people do. If
yes, it matters not what people do. And, you say, if never exposed to
Jesus, it's an automatic no.

Sounds like God second guessing himself. Sounds like everybody had
better get on the stick with all those deeds that are going to count
**after** judgement. That sure looks like *two* judgements. I missed
that part about two judgements in the bible.

So God will condemn people, but take into account what good deeds they
did? Looks exactly like good deeds counting. In contradiction to your
old statements and supporting your new statements. Which are contradictory.

Quote:
Contradictions don't go too far to support intelligent positions.

There have been no contradictions.

Deeds don't count; deeds can count after judgement, you say. So deeds
can count. Contradictory from the start - they don't/they do.

Like it says, "Contradictions don't go too far to support intelligent
positions."

Pastorio
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