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Prostatitis questions
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Prostatitis questions Reply with quote

If you get no answers, try posting to sci.med.prostate.prostatitis

In a previous article, "Paul" <paul.hester@gmail.com> wrote:
->I went to see a urologist about my lower back, kidney and penis pains,
->and the prostate discomfort. He diagnosed it as prostatitis after the
->examination.
->
->In the consultation notes he says: "He had a tender left lobe to an
->otherwise smooth prostate. Transrectal ultrasound showed bilateral
->increased echogenicity but no focal change with a prostate volume of
->around 10cc."
->
->Could someone possibly translate this into layman's terms for me?
->
->My main concern is that I'm just over half-way through a 14-day course
->of Doxycycline, and while the symptoms appear to have waned a little,
->I'm still in a lot of discomfort. In your experiences, how long does it
->generally take for the symptoms to clear?
->
->Also, although the specialist seemed convinced it was prostatitis, I
->worry that it may be something else.
->Any help would be much appreciated.
->
->Many thanks,
->
->Paul
->
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Todd Gastaldo
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:14 pm    Post subject: Happy Dog is silent - babies be damned Reply with quote

HAPPY DOG IS SILENT - BABIES BE DAMNED

See below.

"Happy Dog" <happydog@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:SHD0e.36654$nK.1300092@news20.bellglobal.com...
Quote:
"Amy D" <amykae@joimailNOSPAM.com> wrote in

My six-year-old had hundreds of x-rays by the time he was 4.

Hundreds? Sure.

I finally broke down and took him to a "women's and children's"
chiropractor. I didn't trust her and she knew that. But after a jump
off the bottom of a slide at daycare she discovered WITHOUT RADIATION
that one of his hips sat 1/4 higher than the other. I thought her method
of using a tuning fork to check for any broken bones bizarre and
"witchcraft" Smile until it pinged on a healed broken collarbone he had. So
trusing he had no broken bones I allowed her to adjust him.

Sucker. Here's something that will teach you an important lesson. Take
him to a few chiros for a diagnosis. They will not be able to make a
consistent one. It's bullshit. Glad it worked for you though.


Chiropractic was built on medical failures - patients who had been
everywhere else (all the MDs who failed always arrived at the same
diagnosis - yeah right - LOL)...

It is possible that all those medical failures were going to get better
anyway.

I doubt this after having seen medical failures get better under my own
care - but my doubt is obviously biased.

I like Happy Dog's point that different chiros have different diagnoses and
different treatments.

The chiropractic profession is not without large warts - but they are beauty
marks compared to the grisly tomfoolery of the most prolific spinal
manipulators - MD-obstetricians.

Happy Dog has been silent about MD-obstetricians closing birth canals up to
30% and keeping birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get
stuck - as they pull with hands forceps and vacuums - sometimes pulling so
hard that spinal nerves are ripped out of tiny spinal cords....

Happy Dog ignores the Four OB Lies.


THE FOUR OB LIES


OB LIE #1. After MASSIVE change in the AP pelvic outlet diameter was
clinically demonstrated in 1911 and radiographically demonstrated in 1957,
the authors of Williams Obstetrics began erroneously claiming that pelvic
diamaters DON'T CHANGE at delivery.


OB LIE #2. After Ohlsen pointed out in 1973 that pelvic diameters DO
change - the authors of Williams Obstetrics began erroneously claiming that
their most frequent delivery position - dorsal - widens the outlet.


OB LIE #3. After I pointed out in 1992 that dorsal CLOSES - and so does
semisitting - the authors of Williams Obstetrics - put the correct
biomechanics in their 1993 edition - but kept in their text (in the same
paragraph!) - the dorsal widens bald lie that first called my attention to
their text...


OB LIE #4. OBs are actually KEEPING birth canals closed when babies get
stuck - and claiming they are doing everything to allow the birth canal open
maximally. (ACOG Shoulder Dystocia video - also forceps and vacuum births
are performed with the mother in lithotomy.)


See Make birth better: Dan Rather, before you leave CBS...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com­/group/chiro-list/message/2983


I noted some of the OB lies in an Open Letter to the FTC years ago...
http://home1.gte.net/gastaldo/­part2ftc.html


RELEVANT AMA PRINCIPLES OF MEDICAL ETHICS....


"[AMA physician[s] shall...strive to expose those physicians...who engage in
fraud or deception."


"[AMA p]hysician[s] shall...seek changes in those requirements which are
contrary to the best interests of the patient."


"[AMA p]hysician[s] shall...make relevant information available to patients,
colleagues, and the public..."
http://www.psych.org/psych_pra­ct/ethics/ethics_opinions53101­.cfm


OTHER PHYSICIAN FRAUD AND DECEPTION

Physicians are concealing a vaccine adverse event (failure-to-immunize) as
they fraudulently promote their vaccinations as being 100% effective as they
(in effect) deny massive numbers of babies massive numbers of free daily
immunizations.

See Breasts as doctors (also: Medical Veritas)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3284

Physicians are also temporarily asphyxiating babies and robbing massive
amounts of blood volume from them (up to 50%). The medical euphemism for
this obvious medical crime is "immediate cord clamping."

Re: Umbilical assault (also: Amy: Futue te ipsum et caballum tuum : )
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3211

Happy Dog is silent babies be damned.

Todd
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tech27
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Chiropractic for babies is CHILD ABUSE Reply with quote

Well why didn't you say he had previously broken a collar bone?

Still, if you are the same one who takes her kids to the chiro when then
have a cold coming on or after imunizations you are a fool. The chiro was
lucky to actually do something that helped, now you've been sucked into the
vortex of idiocy. He/she has figured you as a fat mark, and will now try to
treat you and anyone you know. Just wait until he/she offers to treat your
menopause!

Red Flag:
The treatment(s) will require 3 visits a week for 6 weeks (or something like
that).

"Amy D" <amykae@joimailNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:1145o5i356hp7e9@corp.supernews.com...
Quote:
This isn't true although the idea of taking a child to a chiropractor
terrified me for a long time.

My six-year-old had hundreds of x-rays by the time he was 4. Normal
childhood leaps and falls would lay him up on the couch for days unable to
move. They could never find anything wrong. I finally broke down and
took him to a "women's and children's" chiropractor. I didn't trust her
and she knew that. But after a jump off the bottom of a slide at daycare
she discovered WITHOUT RADIATION that one of his hips sat 1/4 higher than
the other. I thought her method of using a tuning fork to check for any
broken bones bizarre and "witchcraft" Smile until it pinged on a healed
broken collarbone he had. So trusing he had no broken bones I allowed her
to adjust him. One adjustment and one follow-up visit and the child has
never had another x-ray or injury. He plays soccer, basketball, baseball
and falls off bikes and skateboards.

I don't really fall in the group that promotes chiropractic manipulation
in every child. But it was much safer and effective than continually
exposing my child to xrays but accomplishing NOTHING. Luckily, I had a
great pediatrician at the time whose brother was a chiropractor so he was
open-minded enough to reassure me it wouldn't hurt anything to try.
Otherwise, my child wouldn't have received the help he did.
amy

tech27 wrote:
You and Gastaldo are two fucking crazy loonies.
You in particular should be reported for child abuse. Chiropractic for
babies is insane. Did you even THINK about the horrors of manipulation of
bones that are just forming? And chiro for colds? This is proof positive
that you need your children taken away by Children's Aid for their own
protection!!!!!

I won't even dignify this by talking about how ludicrous it is to think
that any "laying of hands" can do anything for a viral or bacterial
infection.

Fucking moron! You must have been infected with the Palmerist voodoo.
This imbecile "Father of Chiripractic" proposed this bullshit as a cure
for everything. Try getting yourself treated for "subluxation of the
brain". If you still think it works then it DOESN'T, because you brain is
totally misaligned.






"A&G&K&H" <corymbia2000goawayspam@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:3af2a4F6ar4t6U1@individual.net...

"Todd Gastaldo" <tgastaldo@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Uer0e.3138$H06.1935@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

CHIROPRACTIC FOR BABIES...

After a traumatic birth, GENTLE spinal manipulation has been reported
(by
both medical and chiropractic doctors) to have a beneficial effect.


Both my kids saw our chiropractor within a week of birth ... both times
he
seemed to just massage their heads and touch their tummies.
They also go if they look like getting a cold and also after any
immunisations.
Chiropractic treatment helps me so much and it also seems to really help
them.
Amanda

--
DD 15th August 2002
1 tiny angel Nov 2003
DS 20th August 2004



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tech27
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Get flu, get spine adjusted? Reply with quote

"Nan" <nobodys@home.com> wrote in message
news:iir5411593blcpmnqne7h35k8nqivfjovp@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:44:33 GMT, "Todd Gastaldo"
tgastaldo@earthlink.net> wrote:

My adjustment of a young child years ago
caused me to start getting MY spine adjusted whenever I feel the flu
coming.
I think adjusting helps in infectious disease - no proof - I think it does
though.

I have to say I agree. Every time I've gotten an adjustment when I
was feeling ill, I *always* start feeling better right away.
Coincidence? Possibly, but I'll take feeling better any day!

Nan

That's the same effect as getting a massage. Most people come away feeling
"better" and relaxed. The big question is does chiro treat the cause? Big
answer - hardly ever.
PS-You will probably "enjoy" a barrage of posts from Gastaldo. Most people
plonk him. He is a seriously deranged lunatic.
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tech27
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Chiropractic for babies is CHILD ABUSE Reply with quote

"Happy Dog" <happydog@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:SHD0e.36654$nK.1300092@news20.bellglobal.com...
Quote:
"Amy D" <amykae@joimailNOSPAM.com> wrote in

My six-year-old had hundreds of x-rays by the time he was 4.

Hundreds? Sure.

Yup, works out to one every second day or so. Quite common. Not to worry -
the chiro can treat cancer too.

Sucker. Here's something that will teach you an important lesson. Take
him
Quote:
to a few chiros for a diagnosis. They will not be able to make a
consistent one. It's bullshit. Glad it worked for you though.

moo

Don't be so judgmental. I saw a beautiful female chiro for erectile
dysfunction/delayed ejaculation. She fixed it with deft manipulation.
Although I don't have to get treatments any more (I've learned to
self-adjust), I still go once a week. When I run out of money I'll just get
a picture of her for reference.
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tech27
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:52 pm    Post subject: Re: rectum smells Reply with quote

<health.health@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111690360.577810.277240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

health.health@gmail.com wrote:
I am having a very embarrassing condition for more than 8 years. It
looks like a strange disease. I didn't call it a disease because the
few doctors I have seen about this problem could not tell what it
was.
I feel it is the raw meat type of smell came out of my anus(rectum)
most of the time. It is not fart because I will not have any
sensation
when it happens. Fart means we will have a sensation. The problem
gets
worse after meals and bowel movements, but much better after physical
activities.


Try wiping your ass.



Because of this embarrassing smell, I have been trying to
Quote:
avoid being close to other people. My husband thinks I am afraid of
intimacy since I always have to keep some distance between us.

(cue theme from The Twilight Zone)



He
Quote:
mentioned several times that I had a strange body odor. But I know it
is not BO but something much worse because it is out of my control.

Correct, it's called insanity.


Quote:
It
would be so embarrassing. I have seen a gastroenterologist also, they
thought what I am suffering is a strange problem and did all kinds of
tests like colonoscopy, endoscopy etc. Nothing has found in the
tests.

You will get similar results from a brain scan.


Quote:
They were giving me medicines for the depression, which is not
helping
me either.


NOW we're getting closer. Antidepressants maybe, but try some
anti-psychotics too.



What's exactly wrong with me?


You are mentally ill.


I am an otherwise healthy
Quote:
woman and have no GI problem diagnosed except for light IBS. Another
relevant factor is that I always have a light burning feeling in my
rectum/anus area (though my doctor told me I have hemorrhoids)

Yes, he's right.


Quote:
whenever
the smell is present. It is not life threatening, but it's so
embarrassing and annoying that I would rather have a life threatening
disease.

You do have one - severe mental illness.


I would like to know whether you guys have any info on this
Quote:
disease. I feel inflammation around my rectal and colon area mostly
and some times around my penis and buttocks and also it will be more
whenever I sit on any chair at office or sit in my car etc.

Gender disassociation. Does you husband know about this?


If this
Quote:
disease bothers me alone, I would not have cared that much. But that
odor is bothering too much even for others. I have also found that
smell comes very often when I am under stress like if going to
socialize or say if I am meeting some new people or work pressure.

You probably are also agoraphobic and s**t yourself when you go out.



Quote:
This
illness is leaving me restless and sick. And I can't socialize or do
anything. It makes me like real sick. Every doctor says there is
nothing but I do feel that some smell is coming out on which I don't
have any control.

You feel smell? Can you taste what I'm thinking?


I can feel the smell when I am going in a car.

DO NOT "GO" in your car. You'll never get the smell out.
Quote:

I am a perfect woman.

A perfect loony that is.

I really appreciate your help. I really
Quote:
appreciate if you could give me some suggestions for the recovery


Diagnosis: Mental Illness (various)
Treatment: Psychotherapy and medication.

Next case!
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Nan
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Get flu, get spine adjusted? Reply with quote

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:37:59 -0500, "tech27"
<tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:

Quote:
That's the same effect as getting a massage. Most people come away feeling
"better" and relaxed. The big question is does chiro treat the cause? Big
answer - hardly ever.

Funny, I've had massages and while I do come away relaxed, I never
notice cold or flu symptoms are lessened in the way they are after an
adjustment.

Quote:
PS-You will probably "enjoy" a barrage of posts from Gastaldo. Most people
plonk him. He is a seriously deranged lunatic.

I've been posting to usenet for quite a number of years. I know
exactly who Todd is.

Nan
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Todd Gastaldo
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:26 pm    Post subject: Chiropractic is FAR more than spinal adjusting Reply with quote

CHIROPRACTIC IS *FAR* MORE THAN SPINAL ADJUSTING

See below

"tech27" <tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote in message
news:3rG0e.56485$NC6.21217@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net...
Quote:

"Nan" <nobodys@home.com> wrote in message
news:iir5411593blcpmnqne7h35k8nqivfjovp@4ax.com...
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:44:33 GMT, "Todd Gastaldo"
tgastaldo@earthlink.net> wrote:

My adjustment of a young child years ago
caused me to start getting MY spine adjusted whenever I feel the flu
coming.
I think adjusting helps in infectious disease - no proof - I think it
does
though.

I have to say I agree. Every time I've gotten an adjustment when I
was feeling ill, I *always* start feeling better right away.
Coincidence? Possibly, but I'll take feeling better any day!

Nan

That's the same effect as getting a massage. Most people come away feeling
"better" and relaxed. The big question is does chiro treat the cause? Big
answer - hardly ever.

I have to agree with Tech 27 here.

All cause (mech/chem/psychic/educational) is in the external environment
according to Dr. DD Palmer, founder of chiropractic.

Most chiros focus on treating/adjusting hypothetical secondary (internal
environmental) EFFECTS called vertebral subluxations. Many vertebral
subluxations are said by chiros to be caused by birth trauma - even as these
same chiros remain silent about a simple way to reduce birth trauma - via
NON-SPINAL (educational) adjustment of birth-canal-closing obstetricians out
in the external environment.

DCs are missing a golden opportunity to save tiny lives and tiny limbs and
PREVENT more putative vertebral subluxations than DCs will ever be able to
adjust by hand.

Quote:
PS-You will probably "enjoy" a barrage of posts from Gastaldo. Most people
plonk him. He is a seriously deranged lunatic.


LOL! Nan and I have had our differences. Nan herself might have called me a
"seriously deranged lunatic" at one time or another.

At least Nan and I both like to have our spines adjusted when we aren't
feeling so good.

It MAY be lunacy - but I too always start feeling better right away.

Spinal adjusting also MAY have no more therapeutic effect than a massage.

These things must be acknowledged - just like it must be acknowledged that
chiropractic is FAR more than spinal adjusting. See above.

I thank Tech 27 for his critical thinking about chiropractic.

Todd

PS I actually like BOTH chiropractic and massage. My own personal
experience is that they complement one another. Maybe they both - as Tech
27 suggests - "only" cause people to relax. I'LL TAKE IT. As alluded to
above, like the founder of chiropractic, I believe disease is caused by
external environmental irritation of the nervous system by
mech/chem/psychic(educational) factors. I think Hans Selye called it
"stress." Regular relaxation seems like a good idea - especially since so
many people are mentally stressed and sitting in chairs all day long -
missing/suppressing natural opportunities for taking their minds and bodies
through full ranges of e/motion.
Back to top
Todd Gastaldo
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Get flu, get spine adjusted? Reply with quote

"Nan" <nobodys@home.com> wrote in message
news:tkd6411viuq169f6s4riek3g5757k9tq01@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:37:59 -0500, "tech27"
tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:

That's the same effect as getting a massage. Most people come away feeling
"better" and relaxed. The big question is does chiro treat the cause? Big
answer - hardly ever.

Funny, I've had massages and while I do come away relaxed, I never
notice cold or flu symptoms are lessened in the way they are after an
adjustment.


Me neither. And sometimes the adjustment doesn't seem to do anything for
me. Tech 27 is right - we could just be fooling ourselves - at least I
could be fooling myself.

But I swear it works for me - but then again I haven't been getting colds or
flu very often. HEY! WAIT A MINUTE! MAYBE CHIROPRACTIC ADJUSTING HELPS
*PREVENT* COLDS AND FLU!

Actually, I believe this - but spinal adjusting is only one small part of
chiropractic.

Quote:
PS-You will probably "enjoy" a barrage of posts from Gastaldo. Most people
plonk him. He is a seriously deranged lunatic.

I've been posting to usenet for quite a number of years. I know
exactly who Todd is.


LOL! At least Nan didn't say, "No, Todd is a REALLY seriously deranged
lunatic." : )

Todd
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Todd Gastaldo
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:08 pm    Post subject: DAILY chiropractic care Reply with quote

**DAILY** CHIROPRACTIC CARE

See below

"tech27" <tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote in message
news:3oG0e.56483$NC6.49846@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net...
Quote:
Well why didn't you say he had previously broken a collar bone?

Still, if you are the same one who takes her kids to the chiro when then
have a cold coming on or after imunizations you are a fool.

MDs are fools in regard to "immunizations."

MD vaccinations are only ATTEMPTED immunizations.

Ostensibly "pro-immunization" MDs are concealing a vaccine adverse event
(failure-to-immunize) as
they fraudulently promote their vaccinations as being 100% effective as they
(in effect) deny massive numbers of babies massive numbers of free daily
immunizations.

MDs have no business hiding the fact that breastfeeding women scan the
environment for pathogens and manufacture immunizations.

MDs have no business hiding the fact that breastfeedings are immunizations
which reportedly make MD-needle-vaccinations work better...

MDs are mysteriously concealing a SIMPLE way to make both the immunization
(breastfeeding) and vaccination rates skyrocket.

See Breasts as doctors (also: Medical Veritas)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3284


Quote:
The chiro was lucky to actually do something that helped, now you've been
sucked into the vortex of idiocy.

This CULTURE is a vortex of idiocy.

RELAXATION

When Tech 27 suggested in another post that massage and chiropractic "only"
cause people to relax, I replied:

I'LL TAKE IT.

Like the founder of chiropractic, I believe disease is caused by
external environmental irritation of the nervous system by
mech/chem/psychic(educational) factors. I think Hans Selye called it
"stress." Regular relaxation seems like a good idea - especially since so
many people are mentally stressed and sitting in chairs all day long -
missing/suppressing natural opportunities for taking their minds and bodies
through full ranges of e/motion.


Quote:
He/she has figured you as a fat mark, and will now try to treat you and
anyone you know.


I do think that chiros - like medicos - prefer to treat "fat marks" - as
Tech 27 refers to paying patients.

Quote:
Just wait until he/she offers to treat your menopause!


This has been a problem in chiropractic.

There are chiros who say they can treat menopause in 20 adjustments.

This is quackery.

Menopause only takes 5 adjustments. : )

Quote:
Red Flag:
The treatment(s) will require 3 visits a week for 6 weeks (or something
like that).


With this culture being a vortex of idiocy - humans being forced to sit in
chairs all day and endure mental strain - I would say DAILY chiropractic
spinal adjusting is in order - for whomever wants it.

When I started at Western States Chiropractic College (Portland, Oregon)
circa 1975, one of the professors told me that if everyone moved their
joints - ALL their joints - through full range of motion daily - there would
be far less need for passive spinal and extremity manipulation by
chiropractors.

When I graduated Los Angeles College of Chiropractic/LACC in 1979 (I spent a
year at Texas Chiropractic College), I began thinking about the fact that
this chair-dwelling culture robs its children of a fundamental human range
of motion - a fundamental all-terrain REST posture.

Imagine that! A culture that robs its inhabitants of a way to take a rest
on their feet!

Talk about a vortex of idiocy!

That's us!

I call it the Great Squat Robbery.

Interestingly, British obstetrician Jason Gardosi, MD in effect blamed the
Great Squat Robbery for the Great Birth Robbery - the OB practice of robbing
babies of up to 30% of pelvic outlet area.

See Gardosi's 1989 Lancet "randomised controlled trial of squatting" - where
nobody squatted!

See Sarah Key's huge balls (also: Kids can SQUAT motionless for hours)...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/­chiro-list/message/2084

See also: Britains 1982 Squatting Rally (also: Dr. Gardosi's squatting
fraud)...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3239

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/b6d237bb39ca6e29

Todd

Quote:
"Amy D" <amykae@joimailNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:1145o5i356hp7e9@corp.supernews.com...
This isn't true although the idea of taking a child to a chiropractor
terrified me for a long time.

My six-year-old had hundreds of x-rays by the time he was 4. Normal
childhood leaps and falls would lay him up on the couch for days unable
to move. They could never find anything wrong. I finally broke down and
took him to a "women's and children's" chiropractor. I didn't trust her
and she knew that. But after a jump off the bottom of a slide at daycare
she discovered WITHOUT RADIATION that one of his hips sat 1/4 higher than
the other. I thought her method of using a tuning fork to check for any
broken bones bizarre and "witchcraft" Smile until it pinged on a healed
broken collarbone he had. So trusing he had no broken bones I allowed
her to adjust him. One adjustment and one follow-up visit and the child
has never had another x-ray or injury. He plays soccer, basketball,
baseball and falls off bikes and skateboards.

I don't really fall in the group that promotes chiropractic manipulation
in every child. But it was much safer and effective than continually
exposing my child to xrays but accomplishing NOTHING. Luckily, I had a
great pediatrician at the time whose brother was a chiropractor so he was
open-minded enough to reassure me it wouldn't hurt anything to try.
Otherwise, my child wouldn't have received the help he did.
amy

tech27 wrote:
You and Gastaldo are two fucking crazy loonies.
You in particular should be reported for child abuse. Chiropractic for
babies is insane. Did you even THINK about the horrors of manipulation
of bones that are just forming? And chiro for colds? This is proof
positive that you need your children taken away by Children's Aid for
their own protection!!!!!

I won't even dignify this by talking about how ludicrous it is to think
that any "laying of hands" can do anything for a viral or bacterial
infection.

Fucking moron! You must have been infected with the Palmerist voodoo.
This imbecile "Father of Chiripractic" proposed this bullshit as a cure
for everything. Try getting yourself treated for "subluxation of the
brain". If you still think it works then it DOESN'T, because you brain
is totally misaligned.






"A&G&K&H" <corymbia2000goawayspam@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:3af2a4F6ar4t6U1@individual.net...

"Todd Gastaldo" <tgastaldo@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Uer0e.3138$H06.1935@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

CHIROPRACTIC FOR BABIES...

After a traumatic birth, GENTLE spinal manipulation has been reported
(by
both medical and chiropractic doctors) to have a beneficial effect.


Both my kids saw our chiropractor within a week of birth ... both times
he
seemed to just massage their heads and touch their tummies.
They also go if they look like getting a cold and also after any
immunisations.
Chiropractic treatment helps me so much and it also seems to really help
them.
Amanda

--
DD 15th August 2002
1 tiny angel Nov 2003
DS 20th August 2004




Back to top
Melania
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:54 pm    Post subject: Re: DAILY chiropractic care Reply with quote

Todd Gastaldo wrote:
Quote:
**DAILY** CHIROPRACTIC CARE

See below

"tech27" <tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote in message
news:3oG0e.56483$NC6.49846@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net...
Well why didn't you say he had previously broken a collar bone?

Still, if you are the same one who takes her kids to the chiro when
then
have a cold coming on or after imunizations you are a fool.

MDs are fools in regard to "immunizations."

Only some, Todd.
Quote:

MD vaccinations are only ATTEMPTED immunizations.

This is true - but it doesn't mean they don't work a certain percentage
of the time.

I choose to have myself regularly (appropriately) immunized because I
travel frequently to regions with poor public health, and because I
want to minimize my chances of, say, contracting rubella while
pregnant.

Vaccines have been shown to be remarkably effective in curtailing the
spread of communicable disease. They also definitely have serious
potential side effects, are not always effective, and (as you say) are
frequently misrepresented to the public. MDs do not bother, generally,
to adequately educate their patients on the pros and cons of
vaccination.

Quote:

Ostensibly "pro-immunization" MDs are concealing a vaccine adverse
event
(failure-to-immunize) as
they fraudulently promote their vaccinations as being 100% effective
as they
(in effect) deny massive numbers of babies massive numbers of free
daily
immunizations.

MDs have no business hiding the fact that breastfeeding women scan
the
environment for pathogens and manufacture immunizations.

MDs have no business hiding the fact that breastfeedings are
immunizations
which reportedly make MD-needle-vaccinations work better...

MDs are mysteriously concealing a SIMPLE way to make both the
immunization
(breastfeeding) and vaccination rates skyrocket.

Excellent, largely overlooked points all. I breastfed my son on demand
till he was nearly 2 years old, and had the standard childhood
vaccinations (opting out of the varicella vaccine).

Quote:

See Breasts as doctors (also: Medical Veritas)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3284


The chiro was lucky to actually do something that helped, now
you've been
sucked into the vortex of idiocy.

This CULTURE is a vortex of idiocy.

RELAXATION

When Tech 27 suggested in another post that massage and chiropractic
"only"
cause people to relax, I replied:

I'LL TAKE IT.

Like the founder of chiropractic, I believe disease is caused by
external environmental irritation of the nervous system by
mech/chem/psychic(educational) factors. I think Hans Selye called it
"stress." Regular relaxation seems like a good idea - especially
since so
many people are mentally stressed and sitting in chairs all day long
-
missing/suppressing natural opportunities for taking their minds and
bodies
through full ranges of e/motion.

I'll lean in the direction of allopathy (sp?) here and say that I think
you're right overall, but that a lot of disease is caused by pathogens,
pure and simple.
<snip>

Quote:
With this culture being a vortex of idiocy - humans being forced to
sit in
chairs all day and endure mental strain - I would say DAILY
chiropractic
spinal adjusting is in order - for whomever wants it.

When I started at Western States Chiropractic College (Portland,
Oregon)
circa 1975, one of the professors told me that if everyone moved
their
joints - ALL their joints - through full range of motion daily -
there would
be far less need for passive spinal and extremity manipulation by
chiropractors.

I think that's a really valuable statement. We contort our bodies most
of the time, constricting them, and then wonder why they don't thank us
for it.

Todd, most of the people I know who routinely visit chiropractors are
getting less healthy, not more so. Their visits to the chiropractor
hurt, and don't relieve pain or illness, but they persist in going.
They often begin going out of a general sense of malaise, nothing
definite, and develop chronic pain which they then use the chiropractor
to "treat" (how something hurting more for a while and then going back
to the same level of background pain is treatment is beyond me). I know
people who have had back surgery thanks to a messed-up spinal
adjustment resulting in spinal damage. I know a few people who have
permanently lost feeling in fingers or hands due to adjustments.

I also know a few people for whom chiropractors have been a godsend.
One man I know no longer experiences migranes thanks to his
chiropractor. A female coworker's hip pain and reduced movement in the
hip socket were cured. Generally, however, I have become deeply
suspicious of chiropractors in general because of the sheer number of
people I know who keep going to them even though all it seems to do is
hurt them.

I'm deeply suspicious of joint manipulation *if there isn't any solid
indication to do it.* I would not feel at all comfortable allowing
anyone to try and realign my baby's spine or limbs.

In spite of all of this, I cannot look at the number of people in this
group who have so greatly benefitted from their chiropractors' care and
say to myself "they're all self-deluding nutcases!" And I fully believe
that you care more passionately about the health and welfare of all
people - babies included - than virtually any doctor I've met, and that
you would never perform an adjustment on a person (especially a baby or
small child) without knowing that it was going to help them and not
hurt them.

It did scare the living daylights out of me, however, to see a couple
of my coworkers, the ones with the bruises and aches from their
adjustments, hauling their seemingly-healthy kids in to be similarly
manipulated.

I'm not even sure where I'm going with this, but I felt like I needed
to get some of it out.

cheers,
Melania
Mom to Joffre (Jan 11, 2003)
and #2 (edd May 21, 2005)
Back to top
Joel M. Eichen
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 4062

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Informed Consent Discussion Reply with quote

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:50:32 -0800, "Sharon Hope" <shope@anet.net>
wrote:

Quote:
So, did the form she signed specify "heart valve damage and a fatal lung
condition"?

Or was it a general 'risks of dieting' wording? If the latter, does
accepting risk at a particular point in time grant carte blanche to all
risks identified in the future?

Also, even if the FDA had not yet recognized the risks, does this imply she
knew or should have known these risks?


************************************************

R E P L Y

This is Pennsylvania Law ..... each state varies .....


Joel

***********************************************


Based on the precedent established by the Pennsylvania Supreme
Court in Howell v. Clyde, 533 Pa. 151, 620 A.2d 1107 (1993), which
this Court followed in Duquesne Light Company v. Woodland Hills School
District, 700 A.2d 1038 (Pa. Cmwlth. 1997), we conclude that the
doctrine of assumption of the risk is not applicable to the instant
matter. In Duquesne Light Company, we summarized the Supreme Court’s
limitation of the doctrine of assumption of the risk as follows:


In Howell v. Clyde, 533 Pa. 151, 620 A.2d 1107 (1993),
the Supreme Court abolished assumption of risk as an
affirmative defense decided by the jury. The court
concluded "to the extent that an assumption of risk
analysis is appropriate in any given case, it shall be
applied by the court as a part of the duty analysis, and not
as part of the case to be determined by the jury." Id. at


162, 620 A.2d at 1112-13. The court preserved the
doctrine as an affirmative defense "in cases involving
express assumption of risk, or cases brought pursuant to
402A (strict liability theory), or cases in which
assumption of risk is specifically preserved by statute."
Id. at 162 n. 10, 620 A.2d at 1113 n. 10.
An express assumption of the risk is where the plaintiff
has given his express consent to relieve the defendant of
an obligation to exercise care for the plaintiff's
protection. Rutter v. Northeastern Beaver County School
District, 496 Pa. 590, 437 A.2d 1198 (1981); Hannon v.
City of Philadelphia, 548 A.2d 693 (Pa. Cmwlth. 1988),
petition for allowance of appeal denied, 522 Pa. 598, 562
A.2d 322 (1989). "Ordinarily such an agreement takes
the form of a contract, which provides that the defendant
is under no obligation to protect the plaintiff, and shall
not be liable to him for the consequences of conduct
which would otherwise be tortious." Restatement
(Second) of Torts § 496B, Comment (a) (1965).




Quote:

"Joel M. Eichen" <joeleichen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ha9141lh09ft3a2g75tsrhoql6k0665jc6@4ax.com...
Here is a recent update explaining how
important INFORMED CONSENT can be!

Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.



On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:51:24 -0500, Joel M. Eichen
joeleichen@yahoo.com> wrote:

Informed Consent is extremely important!

Here's an example of how a jury verdict was reversed because of the
informed consent issue.


Joel

**


Wyeth says judge overrules jury in diet drug case
Wed Feb 23, 2005 08:55 PM ET

NEW YORK, Feb 23 (Reuters) - Drugmaker Wyeth (WYE.N: Quote, Profile,
Research) on Wednesday said a judge had set aside a jury's verdict
from last November that found in favor of a woman who claimed one of
the company's diet drugs had damaged her heart value and instead
entered a judgment in favor of Wyeth.

The company said in a statement the jury had originally found in favor
of plaintiff Geri McMurdie, awarding her $780,000 in damages, after
she alleged heart valve injury from the use of diet drug Pondimin,
which was once marketed by Wyeth.


FACT BOX
WYE.N (WYETH)
Last: 38.91
Change: 0.00
Up/Down: 0.00

Quote
Full Chart
Company Profile
Research Reports

News for WYE.N
HEADLINE STOCKS - U.S. stocks to watch on March 22
U.S. stocks seen lower; Fed comments awaited
Wall Street seen flat ahead of Fed meeting


But Wyeth said evidence showed McMurdie had signed a consent form
acknowledging the potential risks of diet drugs at the time she was
prescribed Pondimin and Judge Mark Bernstein of the Court of Common
Pleas of Philadelphia found McMurdie "knowingly and voluntarily
assumed the risks".

McMurdie was one of four Utah plaintiffs whose trials were combined
last year. The judge has not yet ruled on Wyeth's challenges to the
other three verdicts, Wyeth said.

The Madison, New Jersey-based drugmaker in 1997 recalled Pondimin and
a second drug, Redux, used in the fen-phen slimming cocktail after the
appetite suppressants were linked to heart valve damage and a fatal
lung condition.

Total charges to cover liabilities to former users of the drugs have
since crossed the $21 billion mark,


© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.

NYSE and AMEX quotes delayed by at least 20 minutes. Nasdaq and all
other quotes delayed by at least 15 minutes. Reuters does not endorse
the views or opinions given by any third party content provider.





Back to top
Howard McCollister
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 243

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 24 Hour Ph Questions - 2nd try Reply with quote

"Pete" <petesworkshop@nospamatt.net> wrote in message
news:Iv4%d.420482$w62.85931@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Quote:
Howard...the last post I sent you had a typo in it (it should have said
the
ph in my esophagus was lower than my stomach after 3:30 AM - as explained
in
detail in my first post). I deleted the post and resent it right away,
but
you must have grabbed it before I had a chance. I think you got the just
anyway. My gastro doesn't care about any of this, and there are no more
gastro's left in my area. Like I said he didn't even know the doctor in
Baltimore sent him the ph test, and I doubt if he knew how to read it, and
he could not answer my questions. I am the one concerned. It doesn't
make
sense for the ph of the esophagus to be lower than the stomach - that's my
point. Can you tell me if you are a gastroenterologist or a general
surgeon
or what is your specialty, and is it possible to communicate with you one
to
one. We do appreciate the valuable time you spend volunteering your
inputs
to the newsgroup. Thanks again. You can write me directly by just taking
the "no spam" out of my address...Pete


I re-read your original post. It is normal for the pH in the esophagus to be
higher than in the stomach, at least part of the time. The LES is supposed
to prevent reflux - normal esophageal pH would be around 6-6.5. You have a
malfunctioning LES, so you occasionally get acid up into your esophagus,
which causes you symptoms. Fundic gland polyps are a trophic consequence of
PPI's causing hypergastrinemia. "Cutting them out" is pointless - the only
reason to biopsy a few is to make sure that they're not adenomatous.

I suspect the reason your gastroenterologist "doesn't care about any of
this" is that is likely makes no difference. As I mentioned there can be
many reasons why your esophageal pH might be lower or higher than your
gastric pH, but they're all pretty much irrelevant to your diagosis and its
subsequent treatment.

HMc
Back to top
Amy D
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:11 am    Post subject: Re: Chiropractic for babies is CHILD ABUSE Reply with quote

Happy Dog wrote:
Quote:
"Amy D" <amykae@joimailNOSPAM.com> wrote in


My six-year-old had hundreds of x-rays by the time he was 4.


Hundreds? Sure.


Close enough. He had full body xrays about 3 times and 3 or 4 other

times had xrays in more localized areas.

amy


Quote:
I finally broke down and took him to a "women's and children's"
chiropractor. I didn't trust her and she knew that. But after a jump off
the bottom of a slide at daycare she discovered WITHOUT RADIATION that one
of his hips sat 1/4 higher than the other. I thought her method of using
a tuning fork to check for any broken bones bizarre and "witchcraft" Smile
until it pinged on a healed broken collarbone he had. So trusing he had
no broken bones I allowed her to adjust him.


Sucker. Here's something that will teach you an important lesson. Take him
to a few chiros for a diagnosis. They will not be able to make a consistent
one. It's bullshit. Glad it worked for you though.

moo

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Todd Gastaldo
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:19 am    Post subject: Rubella stuff - and Melania's chiro (bad) news Reply with quote

"Melania" <mdcnnn@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111708450.846474.232330@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

Todd Gastaldo wrote:
**DAILY** CHIROPRACTIC CARE

See below

"tech27" <tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote in message
news:3oG0e.56483$NC6.49846@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net...
Well why didn't you say he had previously broken a collar bone?

Still, if you are the same one who takes her kids to the chiro when
then
have a cold coming on or after imunizations you are a fool.

MDs are fools in regard to "immunizations."

Only some, Todd.

MD vaccinations are only ATTEMPTED immunizations.

This is true - but it doesn't mean they don't work a certain percentage
of the time.


I never said vaccinations don't work a certain percentage of the time.

I said MDs are concealing a serious adverse vaccine reaction
(failure-to-immunize) thereby fraudulently promoting their vaccinations as
100% effective

Quote:
I choose to have myself regularly (appropriately) immunized because I
travel frequently to regions with poor public health, and because I
want to minimize my chances of, say, contracting rubella while
pregnant.


Good idea.

BUT MDs HAVE BEEN LESS THAN FORTHCOMING ABOUT VACCINATIONS...

SO...

FOR YOUR POSSIBLE READING INTEREST...

(Rubella stuff from a 1999 post.)

CDC vaccination czar Walter Orenstein, M.D. co-authored a 1981 rubella study
in JAMA Feb 20;245(7):711-3 which reported that 90% of obstetricians had
not submitted to rubella vaccination. ("only one of the 11 known
susceptible obstetrician-gynecologists was vaccinated.")
See Orenstein WA, et al.
Rubella vaccine and susceptible hospital employees. Poor physician
participation.
JAMA. 1981 Feb 20;245(7):711-3.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ht­bin-post/Entrez/query?uid=7463­660&form=...


Dr. Robert Berkow's Merck Manual indicates that obstetricians are "high
risk" for
contracting and spreading rubella and should definitely submit to rubella
vaccination. ("Efforts should also be made to screen and vaccinate high-risk
groups, such as hospital...workers..."
http://www.merck.com/pubs/mman­ual/section19/chapter260/260m.­htm#A019-...
2 )


Dr. Berkow's Merck Manual also gives good reasons obstetricians should
submit to
rubella vaccination:


"Effects on the fetus vary from death in utero to multiple anomalies to
isolated hearing loss...Women exposed to rubella early in pregnancy should b
e informed about the potential risks to the fetus, and termination of
pregnancy should be considered."
http://www.merck.com/pubs/mman­ual/section19/chapter260/260m.­htm#A019-...
2


I am sure that the percent of obstetricians refusing rubella vaccination has
plummeted since Orenstein's 1981 JAMA study - especially since rubella
vaccination is now required
for entry to medical residency. (Joanne Hatem, MD died on September 6, 1997,
a victim of rubella (German measles) vaccine administered as a requirement
for medical residency in New York state. Reported in Dr. Kristine M.
Severyn's Vaccine News, September 1997. )


Death and disability from rubella vaccination are reportedly quite rare; but
then again, maybe death and disability from rubella vaccination aren't as
rare as reported: MDs have a problem with reporting serious adverse
reactions...


In 1986, Congress had to DEMAND that MDs report serious adverse reactions
[Smith
Pediatrics 1988].


In 1993 - even though such reports are essential for
determining safety - MDs were failing to report up to 99% of serious adverse
reactions to medications. [Kessler JAMA 1993]


This latter fact is quite relevant because CDC's Vaccine Information Sheets
compare vaccine safety (unknown) to medication safety (unknown). It is in
part for this reason that I say that CDC Vaccine Information Sheets
FRAUDULENTLY indicate that MDs/CDC know vaccines are known to be safe
alternatives to risking immunization via natural disease. See
"Vaccines/Eugenics/Primatologi­st apes MD/Small Pox hoax (Jenner's "Spurious
Cowpox")"...
http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?­AN=513703325


Specifically in regard to RUBELLA vaccine safety, MDs and RNs (and other
hospital personnel) might be interested in The Chronic Rubella Viremia
Support Group, South 20655 Brown Rd., Cataldo ID 83810, (208) 689-3925...


The Chronic Rubella Viremia Support Group is a group of over 200 health care
professionals who submitted to rubella vaccination and ended up with chronic
debilitating symptoms attributable to rubella vaccine. The founder of the
group, Katy Fox, RN, suspects that many other health professionals were
adversely affected by the rubella vaccine. When 20/20 did a story on the
subject, she says, over 600 people responded.


IMPORTANT NOTE: As alluded to above, pregnant women who choose hospital
birth and who are seronegative for rubella can expect be asked to submit to
rubella vaccination immediately after birth...


According to Marsha Leen-Mitchell and John Carey, MD et al.:


"It is highly recommended that non-rubella immune new mothers be vaccinated
prior to discharge from
the hospital."
Teratogen Update
GENETIC DRIFT
Vol. 12: Fall, 1995
http://www.ahsc.arizona.edu/~m­srgsn/gd/gdvol12.htm#rubella


Except for the known 50% adverse reaction rate of rubella vaccination, this
would seem to be one way for mothers to confer passive immunity to rubella
on their newborns via breastfeeding. (Wouldn't oral rubella vaccination be
preferable? See "Breastfeeding/AAP's deletion/Two questions"...
http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?­AN=503292552 )


Leen-Mitchell and Carey et al. say that CDC says that rubella vaccination in
pregnancy is not associated with congenital rubella syndrome:


"Data collected by the CDC suggests that inadvertent use of rubella
vaccination in pregnancy or in the three months prior to pregnancy is not
associated with congenital rubella syndrome or any increase in the rate of
birth defects. However, theoretical risks dictate that the rubella
live-virus vaccine be avoided during pregnancy."


Further on, Leen-Mitchell and Carey et al. state that natural maternal
infection with rubella disease in the first eight weeks of pregnancy is
associated with an 85% risk for congenital rubella syndrome (CRS):


"All TORCH infections have been associated with varying degrees of pregnancy
loss...First described in 1941, this prototype of congenital infections
[Rubella] is
characterized by congenital heart defects, cataracts, deafness and mental
retardation. Maternal infection in the first eight weeks of pregnancy is
associated with an 85% risk for congenital rubella syndrome (CRS)."
http://www.ahsc.arizona.edu/~m­srgsn/gd/gdvol12.htm#rubella


(TORCH is an acronym for a group of maternally acquired communicable
diseases that include Toxoplasmosis, Other (varicella, Venezuelan equine
encephalitis, mumps, coxsackie, parvovirus, HIV), RUBELLA, Cytomegalovirus
and Herpes.)


Whatever the risk of congenital rubella syndrome following vaccination in
early pregnancy, the risk was not apparently "theoretical" for Tyler Rooks
(see below).


Which prompts the following question: Of the obstetricians still refusing
rubella vaccination, how many are
informing women of the potential risks to fetuses of their failure to
vaccinate themselves?


And what about physicians in general who refuse rubella vaccination and who
see women who may or may not know they are pregnant?


One thing is for sure, rubella risk has been very real for some fetuses -
whether by natural disease or by vaccination - though again, according to
CDC, natural disease is far riskier for fetuses...


@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@


According to Dr. Kristine M. Severyn's Vaccine News, September 1997, Tyler
Rooks was born with "cerebral dysgenesis" because her mother didn't know she
was one month pregnant when she obtained her rubella vaccination because of
a college enrollment requirement.


Tyler has not been compensated by the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
(VICP). (VICP is the boondoggle Congress set up to free MDs and
pharmaceutical
manufacturers from most liability from their vaccination behavior. In
creating VICP
Congress had to DEMAND that MDs make reports of suspected vaccine injury and
suspected vaccine death. [Smith Pediatrics 1988] - yet in 1993 then-FDA
Commissioner David Kessler, MD published evidence that physicians were
failing to report up to 99% of serious adverse reactions to medications.)


According to Dr. Severyn, in 1997, VICP "Special Master" Laura D. Millman
was telling Tyler Rook's mother that she couldn't have any money from the
VICP
program because the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986, which
established the VICP, requires that "an injured person must have 'received'
a...vaccine."


VICP "Special Master" Millman told Tyler's mother that Tyler did not
'receive' MMR vaccine "because he was not injected nor did he ingest the
vaccine," meaning that an unborn child cannot "receive" a vaccine given to
his/her mother!!!


Dr. Severyn, a registered pharmacist with a doctorate in biopharmaceutics,
found it remarkable that the government says that an unborn baby is a
"person" if s/he is damaged by rubella DISEASE; but if that same baby is
purportedly damaged by rubella VACCINE, the government asserts that unborn
babies are not "persons" - to avoid paying compensation...


Vaccination and vaccine safety are DEFINITELY relevant to pregnancy - and
they are also relevant to what happens after pregnancy, as in
misc.KIDS.pregnancy...


In this latter regard, controversial vaccination opponent Viera Scheibner,
PhD (see the provocative title of her book) studied the literature on
rubella vaccination and concluded that rubella vaccination "simply does not
work."
[Scheibner V. Vaccination: 100 years of orthodox research shows that
vaccines represent a medical assault on the immune system. First Australian
edition published in 1993 by Dr. Scheibner, 178 Govetts Leap Road,
Blackheath, NSW 2785, fax 047-87-8988.]


It is noteworthy that the December 16, 1995 Globe and Mail (Quebec) reported
that Dr. Viera Scheibner had been accepted as a vaccination expert by the
Quebec College of Physicians in its investigation of Gylaine Lanctôt, M.D.
following publication of Lanctôt's controversial book The Medical Mafia.
[McFarlane P. A renegade doctor adds fuel to the childhood-vaccination row.
(Dec16)1995]


According to The Globe and Mail: "the questions Dr. Lanctôt raises over
childhood vaccinations have been part of a more mainstream medical debate
that is only now coming into the open in Canada."


A side bar to the same Globe and Mail article notes that a group of 180
Swiss doctors oppose mass compulsory measles, mumps and RUBELLA vaccination
(MMR) because, they say, natural infections with these diseases help the
immune system mature; and because, even with a 95% immunization rate in the
U.S., they say, measles epidemics are increasing - with increasing severity
of measles cases. (The 1996 Report of the U.S. Preventive Services Task
Force, Guide to Clinical Preventive Services, does not mention increasing
severity of measles, but does state that "because of immunization failures,
a two-dose vaccination protocol...appears necessary.")

Quote:
END Rubella stuff...


Melania continued...

Quote:
Vaccines have been shown to be remarkably effective in curtailing the
spread of communicable disease.

My undergrad degree from UCLA was in Biochem - a hop skip and a jump from
immunology.

I sure like the idea that injecting people with dead stuff (or attenuated
live stuff - is that the right word?) protects them from live stuff.

As long as people are fully informed - I am totally in favor of
vaccination - though not mandatory vaccination.

Quote:
They also definitely have serious
potential side effects, are not always effective, and (as you say) are
frequently misrepresented to the public.

Yep.


Quote:
MDs do not bother, generally,
to adequately educate their patients on the pros and cons of
vaccination.


I think they hit the pros pretty hard - as in their fraudulent vaccination
promotion - see above.

Quote:

Ostensibly "pro-immunization" MDs are concealing a vaccine adverse
event
(failure-to-immunize) as
they fraudulently promote their vaccinations as being 100% effective
as they
(in effect) deny massive numbers of babies massive numbers of free
daily
immunizations.

MDs have no business hiding the fact that breastfeeding women scan
the
environment for pathogens and manufacture immunizations.

MDs have no business hiding the fact that breastfeedings are
immunizations
which reportedly make MD-needle-vaccinations work better...

MDs are mysteriously concealing a SIMPLE way to make both the
immunization
(breastfeeding) and vaccination rates skyrocket.

Excellent, largely overlooked points all. I breastfed my son on demand
till he was nearly 2 years old, and had the standard childhood
vaccinations (opting out of the varicella vaccine).


I like the idea of the University of Washington medical professor who
recommends waiting till age 2 before administering vaccinations.

Quote:

See Breasts as doctors (also: Medical Veritas)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3284


The chiro was lucky to actually do something that helped, now
you've been
sucked into the vortex of idiocy.

This CULTURE is a vortex of idiocy.

RELAXATION

When Tech 27 suggested in another post that massage and chiropractic
"only"
cause people to relax, I replied:

I'LL TAKE IT.

Like the founder of chiropractic, I believe disease is caused by
external environmental irritation of the nervous system by
mech/chem/psychic(educational) factors. I think Hans Selye called it
"stress." Regular relaxation seems like a good idea - especially
since so
many people are mentally stressed and sitting in chairs all day long
-
missing/suppressing natural opportunities for taking their minds and
bodies
through full ranges of e/motion.

I'll lean in the direction of allopathy (sp?) here and say that I think
you're right overall, but that a lot of disease is caused by pathogens,
pure and simple.
snip

If I were forced to make a choice - vaccinate the whole world or give the
whole world food, shelter and clean water - I would do the latter.

Quote:

With this culture being a vortex of idiocy - humans being forced to
sit in
chairs all day and endure mental strain - I would say DAILY
chiropractic
spinal adjusting is in order - for whomever wants it.

When I started at Western States Chiropractic College (Portland,
Oregon)
circa 1975, one of the professors told me that if everyone moved
their
joints - ALL their joints - through full range of motion daily -
there would
be far less need for passive spinal and extremity manipulation by
chiropractors.

I think that's a really valuable statement. We contort our bodies most
of the time, constricting them, and then wonder why they don't thank us
for it.

Todd, most of the people I know who routinely visit chiropractors are
getting less healthy, not more so.

They should stop immediately!

Or find a different chiro!

Quote:
Their visits to the chiropractor
hurt, and don't relieve pain or illness, but they persist in going.


Some chiros do adjust roughly. Sad but true.

Now there are low force techniques.

Quote:
They often begin going out of a general sense of malaise, nothing
definite, and develop chronic pain which they then use the chiropractor
to "treat" (how something hurting more for a while and then going back
to the same level of background pain is treatment is beyond me).

Wow. When I was in spinal adjusting practice, the exact opposite was true -
they often came during an acute pain or an acute exacerbation of chronic
pain - sometimes got better in one adjustment (Yay!) - usually more - or
sometimes did not get better - and I referred them - to another DC if they
wanted - or to an orthopod or to whomever they wanted.

Quote:
I know
people who have had back surgery thanks to a messed-up spinal
adjustment resulting in spinal damage.

Sheesh!

Quote:
I know a few people who have
permanently lost feeling in fingers or hands due to adjustments.


One of my first patients REGAINED feeling thanks to my adjustments.

Melania, you are most remarkable, knowing all these people with poor
chiropractic outcomes.

Quote:
I also know a few people for whom chiropractors have been a godsend.


Phew!

Quote:
One man I know no longer experiences migranes thanks to his
chiropractor.

I remember my first migraine patient. Boy was she happy!

Quote:
A female coworker's hip pain and reduced movement in the
hip socket were cured.

YAY!

Quote:
Generally, however, I have become deeply
suspicious of chiropractors in general because of the sheer number of
people I know who keep going to them even though all it seems to do is
hurt them.


Who *wouldn't* be suspicious!

Your reference to "the sheer number" - again you are most remarkable,
knowing all those people with poor chiropractic outcomes.

Quote:
I'm deeply suspicious of joint manipulation *if there isn't any solid
indication to do it.*

Do any of your friends take NSAIDS - not just the ones suffering poor chiro
outcomes?

Quote:
I would not feel at all comfortable allowing
anyone to try and realign my baby's spine or limbs.


Wow - esp. not with all your friends having poor outcomes!

If your baby is suffering and the medics don't know - I swear - MOST chiros
who treat babies are GENTLE (I would say ALL - but I don't know all of
them.)

If it ever comes to that - I am sure you could ask the doc to ask a mother
if you can watch when her baby gets adjusted.

That's what I would do.

Quote:
In spite of all of this, I cannot look at the number of people in this
group who have so greatly benefitted from their chiropractors' care and
say to myself "they're all self-deluding nutcases!"

But you would make an exception for me, right? LOL!

Quote:
And I fully believe
that you care more passionately about the health and welfare of all
people - babies included - than virtually any doctor I've met,


Wow - high praise! Thanks!

Quote:
and that
you would never perform an adjustment on a person (especially a baby or
small child) without knowing that it was going to help them and not
hurt them.


First do no harm - Primo Non Nocere (?) - that's the hope - and in
chiropractic - except for your unfortunate friends and their chiros - the
hope is reality.

Chiropractic spinal adjusting is quite safe.

Medical spinal adjusting - well - as you know - the most prolific spinal
manipulators - MD-obstetricians - are GRUESOME spinal manipulators because
they chemically push and mechanically pull on tiny spines with birth canals
senselessly kept closed up to 30%.

When a baby turns up with problems that the medics can't help - parents
sometimes turn to a higher authority - a chiropractor.

JUST KIDDING.

I repeat what I wrote in the first post this thread ("Chiropractic for
babies")...

After a traumatic birth, GENTLE spinal manipulation has been reported (by
both medical and chiropractic doctors) to have a beneficial effect.

The German physician Beidermann [1992] used spinal adjusting to treat 135
babies referred to him by a pediatric orthopedist.
Beidermann [1992] wrote that traumatization of suboccipital structures
occurs during birth, giving rise to manipulable lesions and various
conditions which he has observed to subside soon after manipulation of
those lesions. [Beidermann H. Kinematic imbalances due to suboccipital
strain in newborns. J Manual Medicine 1992;6:151-156. H. Beidermann,
M.D., Surgical Department, University of Witten-Herdecke, Schützenstrasse
9, W-5840 Schwerte, Federal Republic of Germany.]


According to Beidermann [1992], conditions which have yielded to a single
upper cervical manipulation include neonatal torticollis, opisthotonus,
asymmetric motor patterns, sleeping disorders, asymmetric development and
range of motion of the hips, fever of unknown origin, and loss of
appetite.


Beidermann reports that manipulation and physiotherapy
complement each other, with about 50% of cases requiring physiotherapy
following spinal manipulation. ("[P]hysiotherapists report consistently that
the[ir] treatment is simplified after
manipulation.")


Beidermann [1992] also stated,


"Prolonged labor and the use of extraction
aids are especially overrepresented" in cases of the syndrome he calls
kinematic imbalance due to suboccipital strain, or KISS. The birth
canal, he says, is "one of the most dangerous obstacles we ever have to
traverse."


Melania concluded...


Quote:
It did scare the living daylights out of me, however, to see a couple
of my coworkers, the ones with the bruises and aches from their
adjustments, hauling their seemingly-healthy kids in to be similarly
manipulated.

I'm not even sure where I'm going with this, but I felt like I needed
to get some of it out.


I, for one, am glad you shared your experiences.

It is good to get scares off your chest; indeed, if you suspect child abuse
(like Tech 27) - you should report it.

I am astonished that the chiros of whom you speak can keep people coming
back - and bringing their children! - after causing their pain.

That is so amazing!

Quote:
cheers,
Melania
Mom to Joffre (Jan 11, 2003)
and #2 (edd May 21, 2005)


Todd
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